Echoes of rag and tally

MY recent scribblings about the intriguingly-named Rag and Tally Row, a string of humble old cottages which stood at the Derbyshire Hill end of Parr, has yielded a flood of interesting response.

Reader A. Thompson of Pond Walk refreshes my memory by explaining that the nickname for that row had its origins in an equally oddly-named neighbouring coal mine, the Castle Rag.

John Pennington of Wythburn Crescent, Clinkham Wood, points out that this mine was part of Ashtons Green Colliery and, like A.T., confirms that a colliery tally shop was among that old row.

"These tallies (sort of identity tags) were issued to the miners, so that folk knew, with all tallies returned after a shift, all the men were up safe from the pit.

Thus that Rag and Tally connection...

The old floodland, known as The Duckery was formed from water pumped from the mines. And John recalls a double tragedy on the spoilheap site next to it.

Pit waste was regularly cleared by a firm of hauliers from Parr; and the Duckery site claimed the lives of two drivers when they skidded down the tip into the water. They perished, trapped in their lorry cabs.

Peter Waring of Clipsley Lane, Haydock, kindly forwarded a copy of his a biographically-based little publication 'Echoes of Yesteryear' in which he describes his old haunts such as Rag and Tally Row in text and verse.

Back to Mr Thompson who recalls that it was a chap named Collings who made the colliers' tallies.

And picking up on another theme which appeared in that particular look-back piece, he says that the old football pitch which existed behind the Cherry Tree pub was surfaced by waste from the colliery tips.

To create this, adds A.T., "the people living around (I was one of them) wheeled a hundred or so barrows a day to fill a ditch in the middle of spare land, known as Smith's Pit."

It was the Cherry Tree Rovers' home ground and A.T. can even recite the team from those bygone years: Jimmy Kay; Trawler Travis, Walter Langley; Rod Nicholson, Frank Nicholson, Bill Lock; George Lancaster, Alf Thompson, James Lancaster, John Lancaster, Abe Anders.

Peter Waring certainly had his childhood memories re-stirred by my earlier Rag and Tally Row piece.

"I was born there," he explains, "at the home of my grandmother, Mrs Collins. The row was situated in Fleet lane on the lefthand side of the road, between the Cherry Tree Hotel and Berrys Lane." Though he himself could shed no light on the origins of the nickname, he remembers that his granny took great exception to it. "She would not allow the row to be referred to by that name in her presence!"

Her explanation for this was that the residents were God-fearing, respectable married couples and she felt that the slang description sounded derogatory.

And Peter will revive some happy recollections among the silver-threads gang down 'Derby Hill' by saying: "If memory serves me right, starting from the Cherry Tree end of the row, the occupants were the Bloors, Kays, Browns, Ashursts, Grandma Collins, the Farnworths, Nicholsons and Lancasters.

"My Aunt Mary Fahey lived on the end of the row, nearest to Berrys Lane, which had a sandy track running down the side to Bold Moss," Peter adds.

He also remembers another famous old Derbyshire Hill landmark, created by industrial activity and the ravages of the weather.

The 'Lion's Head Rock' was opposite the old cottage row, towering some 40ft into the air. "I spent many happy hours climbing on the rock and it was possible to see for miles from the top."

Peter, too, recalls the Cherry Tree Rovers venue (perhaps the fore-runner of today's solid 'all-weather' surfaces) which, he adds, was also used by St Vincent's School for their home soccer and cricket matches.

His beloved 'Rag Row' of a million childhood memories - mentioned among his original verse - was demolished during the 1950s, says Peter, to make way for the building of the miners' estate which also glories under a rather uncomplimentary nickname . . . Cement City!

It's astonishing how much interest has arisen from my recent themes concerning local placename origins. And it's certainly sharpened the curiosity of Janet Fenney of Crawford Street, Clock Face.

She writes: "I originate from Parr. In fact, up to leaving school I lived in Chancery Lane (almost opposite the previously mentioned Fol-Dol Row).

"But I was born in Fingerpost, and that leads to one of my questions: How did Fingerpost get its name?"

Janet is also curious about the origins of the place where she now lives. "I know there was a Clock Face Colliery and there is a Clock Face Hotel - but why Clock Face? It's a mystery to me. Hopefully someone knows the answer, so I'll keep my fingers crossed."

COME on now, you lot, who's going to put Janet out of her agony? If you can supply answers to her double query, please drop me a line at: Whalley's World, St Helens Star, YMCA Buildings, Duke Street, St Helens WA10 2HZ.

Converted for the new archive on 14 July 2000. Some images and formatting may have been lost in the conversion.