...with The Rt Rev Alan Chesters, Bishop of Blackburn.

I THINK I shall be in heaven when I see a notice on the pearly gates saying "No statistics are reported here". For the Church is so much more than numbers.

Why do those commenting on the state of the Christian churches, and the Church of England in particular, get so concerned about numbers?

It is as if numbers are all that matter, as if they are the essential issue.

It must have come as something of a shock when, a couple of years ago, the church's own experts decided to include those who worshipped at church during the week, as well as those who went on Sunday.

Numbers increased considerably!

Certainly we need large numbers of church-goers to sustain the way, down the years, we have come to think of how we are the Church, with separate and distinctive buildings, full-time clergy and with our own halls and schools.

To be the Church, all we need is ourselves and the grace of God.

A tiny congregation in a village church is as much the church as a vast congregation in a famous church in central London.

We may fuss about them, but in God's eternal purposes the numbers do not ultimately matter. What matters is how we live out our faith and how we die. What matters is what we do with the lives that God has given us.

Are we lovers of God or just lovers of ourselves, who seek out God when it suits us, to give us a boost?

For if we are lovers of God, then we shall love all people.